Sooner or Later…

Today at church the new preacher announced that we would be doing something different at night church and he wanted everyone to attend.  He wanted young & old, anyone with an opinion, as there where some things we–as a church–needed to discuss. 

Well, I had thought about skipping the whole thing. BTDT.  The discussion usually ends up with the ‘in charge’ man (not the preacher) telling us what our opinions are or just shutting down the discussion entirely–the man is excellent at the sidetrack thing.  But since I have been dissatisfied for a looong time well:  in for a penny, in for a pound.  And since we had just gotten by from mil’s house with no time for gardening–OK I’ll go.

Walked in and looked at the books the preacher had stacked up in the first pew.  “The Purpose Driven Church”…now where had I heard that title before?

We finish song sermon, pass out small note pads & pens, and got on with the discussion.  Rules–he will ask a question and we are to ‘brainstorm’ together. Nothing is foolish and he wants everyone’s suggestions.

Note:  I *hate* brainstorming sessions with a passion, just too reminiscent of being the brain in a group, doing all the work, and sharing the grade. 

First a question:  What is the church?

Suggested:  people, family, place of worship, building, fellowship, ministry, God’s House, hope for eternity, study of God’s word, foundation (I disagree strongly), army, hospital for sinners, the body of Christ.

Next step: combine words–won’t list because changed as discussion went on.

Then:  We were to combine words into a sentence that would define “what is the church.”  However, he also let us know that  we shouldn’t put in any action words as that was another question and some hinted at future questions.  So, after listening to a lot of mush that didn’t meet the goal, I suggested (based on a friend’s word suggestion) “The body of Christ representing Jesus Christ on earth.”  Now this friend B., is one who is frustrated at having church traditions that have nothing to do with Bible.  B. pointed out that what the Bible says the church is and what people say are two different things and many, many times people use the word ‘church’ but their meaning has nothing to do with Bible.  B. is the one who suggested ‘body of Christ’.

So we were sent home with instructions to think on that sentence and how we might ‘pretty it up.’  We were also given the next question.  It was the conversation & attitudes afterward that were interesting.

B. was trying to explain her understanding but kept being brushed off.  I stood there and said “well I’m going home and looking it up in my Strong’s because I want to know what the Bible says–not everyone else’s opinion.”  Did you feel the temperature drop?  Because that idea was all well and good, but *we don’t need to take verses out of context either, we want everyone’s ideas*.  Oh and let’s not even look at the Old Testament because it doesn’t really apply to the idea of church–that didn’t exist until Pentecost.   “Well I’m tired of taking people opinions as gospel, I want to know what the Bible says.”  Why is that so hard to understand?  I need to look that Pentecost thing up, because that would mean the apostle’s baptisms before Jesus died are invalid wouldn’t it?

Having stepped in it some why not go head first?  So…”I don’t want to hurt any feelings, but the church is not the foundation–God & Jesus & the Bible are.  If the church were the foundation then white supremacy groups would not be wrong–they are abiding by what their church teaches.”  Well that point had to be reluctantly agreed upon, but not whole-heartedly.  First, because several want this ‘church’ to be the foundation (sounds good, feels good).  Secondly, because the preacher’s wife was the one who said it.

Surprisingly, I did receive some support from people I hadn’t expected.  The second of our two elders sat in front of me and as I muttered under my breath he did agree with what he could hear (mostly my total disagreement with *foundation*).  Then as we stood to leave B.’s husband leaned over and said “I know you were biting your tongue at lot, you’re farther along than they are.”  He is such a quiet soft-spoken man that I was surprised he said anything, or that anyone had noticed.  (Because I was suspicious I had sat in the back, and his wife got roped into being the chalkboard writer.)

So the question to ponder is “What is the church” with a descriptive sentence and next week’s is “Why have church?”

I’m bothered by the fact that this discussion is opinion based and *no* to *not much* from the Bible.  So where is the ‘what does the Bible say’ or ‘what verses are you basing that on?’   kwim?  This preacher uses his Bible a lot–but something isn’t hanging true, like an itch at the back of my brain.  Why?

Now to get going on the Strong’s AND figure out where I read about Rick Warren/ Purpose Driven Life at. 

Anyone want to suggest a good definition?